tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post2775496015997834951..comments2024-03-27T06:42:26.250-07:00Comments on Seven Miles of Steel Thistles: HeroinesKatherine Langrishhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12529700103932422873noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-38851914889102387532013-12-13T04:09:24.059-08:002013-12-13T04:09:24.059-08:00And I don't know where that unwanted 'and&...And I don't know where that unwanted 'and' strayed in from! Katherine Langrishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529700103932422873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-83344633460324978792013-12-13T04:08:29.061-08:002013-12-13T04:08:29.061-08:00You are right, Helen, I was being somewhat unfair ...You are right, Helen, I was being somewhat unfair to Irene - who is also quite a little girl, at least in the first book. My point was that with a book entitled 'The Princess and the Goblin', you might expect it to be a bit more about Irene than Curdie; but it's true that Irene is very like Lucy Pevensie, now I come to think about it. Both of them and see something extraordinary which other people cannot see, and both of them stick to their guns and maintain the truth if their positions in the face of downright scepticism. Katherine Langrishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529700103932422873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-59702100983510518042013-12-13T03:27:43.668-08:002013-12-13T03:27:43.668-08:00Hello Katherine, I'm not sure I've comment...Hello Katherine, I'm not sure I've commented here before but I always enjoy reading your posts and this one was no exception.<br /><br />I must say, I wasn't terribly surprised at the paucity of female heroines before 1918, sad though it is. But perhaps popular children's novels with central female characters from the nineteenth century have fallen out of favour somewhat, because of the 'type' of female character they championed (I'm thinking here of say 'The Wide, Wide World' which was once pretty well known but has now unsurprisingly become obscure. I'm not sure this is really a viable theory though, what do you think? And then again, some of the fairy tales written by writers like Christina Rossetti are actually quite complex and angry, never likely to capture wide interest.<br /><br />Slightly in the same vein, I must respectfully disagree with you that the Princess Irene is not a heroine in 'The Princess and the Goblin'; it's true she isn't terribly feisty and does need rescuing by Curdie, but she's also brave, wise and kind, a heroine of a different sort. At least, that's how I see her.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-30631392379768892062013-12-10T01:21:08.175-08:002013-12-10T01:21:08.175-08:00That's interesting, Nan. Reading LM Montgomer...That's interesting, Nan. Reading LM Montgomery as an adult, I realise just how much of the social comedy I missed, as a child. I keep finding passages that make me laugh out loud. They really are excellent books - sentimental in places, but not too badly. Katherine Langrishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529700103932422873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-61886323250700570102013-12-09T19:30:25.220-08:002013-12-09T19:30:25.220-08:00Like Sarah, Beth was always my favorite and each t...Like Sarah, Beth was always my favorite and each time I read the book I'm sure she won't die!<br />I loved Anne as a girl, but love the books even more as an adult. Such good writing.<br />And lately I've been reading a couple Trixie Belden books and have been very impressed. She's a great character. Nanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15547916206007733970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-35943100073386775552013-12-08T21:20:47.253-08:002013-12-08T21:20:47.253-08:00This was an interesting post, Kath - I feel much a...This was an interesting post, Kath - I feel much as you do, in that I loved George of the Famous Five and Anne of Green Gables and Lucy of the Narnia books because I identified with them so much - I remember grumbling to my sister once, after reading Tom Sawyer, why are the girls in books always so boring? I think things are very different now - we can have sensitive boys and feisty girls, or vice versa, in a way that is much more inclusive. I'd love another post on a few modern-day writers that do this well.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02455915239098174762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-21530934614379722472013-12-08T03:55:20.108-08:002013-12-08T03:55:20.108-08:00I don't object to romance in teenage fiction p...I don't object to romance in teenage fiction per se - I spent much of my teenage in love with one or other fictional character - I think it's just I've read a few too many recently where ALL there is is the stereotypical breathless boy thing, with no humour, no really interesting characters, no plot to speak of. But maybe they're outliers, and hopefully, as you say, Sue, the girls don't really take them very seriously...C.J.Busbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12288574235370421625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-10488618417249036892013-12-08T01:15:03.417-08:002013-12-08T01:15:03.417-08:00It was a rhetorical question, Anne, and of course ...It was a rhetorical question, Anne, and of course I understand why: but I remember feeling as a child that boys were considered somehow 'better'- or certainly more adventurous, and feeling passionately that it wasn't fair. Not every book reflected that attitude, of course. As I said in my last post, I loved CS Lewis's Lucy and Jill, whome he obviously preferred to the boys in his books - and Lewis Carroll's composed and competent Alice. Katherine Langrishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529700103932422873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-76285628650302006012013-12-07T23:58:07.861-08:002013-12-07T23:58:07.861-08:00"Why should a girl have to masquerade as a bo..."Why should a girl have to masquerade as a boy to be taken seriously? Why should bravery, independence and action be seen as masculine qualities?"<br />Because it was the 1950s and post-war when Blyton was writing. That doesn't mean girls have to do those things now - it's slightly unfair to judge Blyton by modern standards. Though in general, I agree with your excellent post, Katherine, I do think it's unfair to read old books and then say they don't offer good roles models for modern girls. Neither do they suggest children of either sex pursue careers as programmers or telecomms engineers, or suggest that having domestic servants might be morally dubious.<br /><br />I never suggested my daughters read books like Little Women or Anne of Green Gables - there are so many good modern books that refelct modern roles that are more accessible (which there weren't when we were young). Of course, I wouldn't stop them reading them - they are available for choosing. But Clara Bean and Coraline are better role models. Stroppy Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560035800075465845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-24750757832400157032013-12-07T13:29:54.015-08:002013-12-07T13:29:54.015-08:00...and by the way, I discovered, recently, that an......and by the way, I discovered, recently, that an early teen romance series published in Australia had been written by some of our top children's writers, mostly under pen names. This was also the case recently with a series called Girlfriend Fiction, which featured some books by our top MALE children's writers. So if they were reading romance, it was good quality romance and had more in it than one girl+two gorgeous boys=ooh!Sue Bursztynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09362273418897882971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-18297474272070673642013-12-07T13:01:43.533-08:002013-12-07T13:01:43.533-08:00No, actually, our girls read a good variety of stu...No, actually, our girls read a good variety of stuff, they just happen to have missed out on those ones. And while I couldn't get past the first in the Twilight series, it was so dull, I won't put it down, because as a librarian, I couldn't help but feel touched when I saw them sitting in doorways, curled up in the library, all over the school, noses in the books, which they passed around among them till I bought a set for the library. The excitement eventually died down, but hey, I wish something I'd written had generated that level of excitement! And one of my best readers told me she had never read anything at all till discovering Twilight in Grade 5. Another, an ESL student, read the series in four weeks and went up four reading levels in our literacy program in a year. She had wanted so badly to read it that she made herself learn the words she needed.<br /><br />Girls will be girls, they want their romance, but rarely take it too seriously, in my experience. Never did. the worst quality romances are read once and forgotten. Harry Potter isn't as popular as it was in my library, but they still read it. The best-looking boy in the series is dead by the end of Volume 4, and only one girl, the shallowest, mourns him as anything but a kind, decent young man. They're reading, right now, Morris Gleitzman's Once quartet(no romance), David Levithan(gay romance, if any), Hunger Games(yes, romance, but the heroine is strong and intelligent and brave), Deborah Ellis's Parvana books...a variety. Sue Bursztynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09362273418897882971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-52737438051045417192013-12-07T12:56:57.988-08:002013-12-07T12:56:57.988-08:00Wonderful post. And wonderful comments from the ot...Wonderful post. And wonderful comments from the others too. Now I am going to be one of those horribly annoying people with a different perspective.<br /><br />When I was a tween, I loved The Famous Five. Anne was my favourite character because I was a gentle girl (although I spent my days roaming forests and spying on suspicious neighbours and shooting wooden guns along with my boy chums.) I related to Anne. Imagine how it felt then to discover my library had blacklisted The Famous Five because of the books' sexist attitudes. It was an early lesson in the fact that gentle girls, nurturing girls, were no longer admirable in society or literature. <br /><br />No one goes on eloquently about Beth March, for example. She was my favourite of those girls. I hated Jo. I loved that in Beth there was a character whose gentleness and sensitivity was celebrated. Although even then, she couldn't be allowed to live with it.<br /><br />I always wanted to be a mother and a homemaker. But if I'm to go by modern books for girls - and by women's commentary of them - that makes me unintelligent (I would waste my excellent education) and weak. <br /><br />I'm not saying characters like Bella Swan are good role models for girls. I'm just regretting that there is so little celebration of gentle girls, nurturing girls, alongside the worthy celebration of tough girls. (I say tough instead of strong because I believe gentleness is a strength also.)<br /><br />Now that I am the mother of a teenaged girl, I struggle to find books which offer a wide selection of heroines - fiesty , quiet romantic, dreamy, sword-wielding, tough, quirky, bookish, sexy. And girls who are all those things in one complex realistic character. Thank goodness for writers like Melina Marchetta. <br /><br />Sorry to be so argumentative. I do love what you wrote. <br />sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-79780757551520124802013-12-07T11:27:33.504-08:002013-12-07T11:27:33.504-08:00Actually, sorry, as a human being it makes me weep...Actually, sorry, as a human being it makes me weep with rage. C.J.Busbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12288574235370421625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-47079124320083973822013-12-07T11:09:44.563-08:002013-12-07T11:09:44.563-08:00I despair about the diet of romance that's the...I despair about the diet of romance that's the current staple of teenage girls' reading - and in terms of the whole YA phenomenon, I think the big growth, and the big change, has been exactly that - the teen romance, with the idealised hot boy. I read what sounded like an interesting concept YA novel recently in order to review it on ABBA and then couldn't bring myself to review it because the romantic breathlessness was just non-stop: 'he's so handsome I don't deserve him, why would he even look at me... Oh, gasp, I think he LIKES me, look at his flat stomach and perfect abs, swoon...'<br />I think there's a strange contradiction going on at the moment, where girls are more successful than ever, and have more opportunities than they used to - but culturally there's more emphasis on closing down their options and putting them in a box where looks and sexiness and finding a man are def9ned as the main goal. As a mother of two daughters, it makes me weep with rage.C.J.Busbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12288574235370421625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-87203591753557651962013-12-07T10:34:58.245-08:002013-12-07T10:34:58.245-08:00That's a brilliant idea, Leslie! And I agree, ...That's a brilliant idea, Leslie! And I agree, I was a little unfair to Sara Crewe: but the 'appeal' of the book, at any rate to me as a child, was definitely the appeal of being a martyr. Katherine Langrishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529700103932422873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-3187304620177099972013-12-07T10:23:03.666-08:002013-12-07T10:23:03.666-08:00I don't think, though, that Sara Crewe is quit...I don't think, though, that Sara Crewe is quite as passive as that. She keeps her world of imagination going, and she is heroic when she gives the buns to the beggar girl. Though the idea of being royalty is yukky to me nowadays, nevertheless, by 'being a Princess' she is saying: 'I am somebody, even if I'm ill-treated and starved.' I do often wonder what happened to her in later life, and can imagine her becoming some famous philanthropist like Burdett-Coutts, or a suffragette, even.Leslie Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15105465949970430998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-64199183622809181542013-12-07T09:36:56.713-08:002013-12-07T09:36:56.713-08:00That's really interesting, Sue! I wonder why ...That's really interesting, Sue! I wonder why the girls are missing out on such great books. Is it because there's not much love-interest in them? and if so, what does that say? Do teenage girls really need romance in their diet that badly? You have to wonder how well The Hunger Games would have done without the love interest. Katherine Langrishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529700103932422873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4950999049789394042.post-58955852636161550682013-12-07T08:04:20.197-08:002013-12-07T08:04:20.197-08:00Great post, Katherine! Well, if Jo ends up married...Great post, Katherine! Well, if Jo ends up married and matriarchal, running a boys' school, "naughty Nan" becomes a doctor and refuses to marry at all.<br /><br />I loved Garth Nix's Old Kingdom trilogy but I'll tell you something interesting: in my library, it has been the boys, not the girls, who have been reading and loving those books! Likewise, fellow Aussie Michael Pryor's steampunk Laws Of Magic series, set in an alternative Edwardinan era, which may have a male protagonist, but whose female characters are all strong, intelligent and interesting, including the mothers - I think there's been one girl who read them, the rest boys. Maybe the girls have all been reading about Bella and others like her? Sue Bursztynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09362273418897882971noreply@blogger.com